Showing posts with label BBC wtc7. Show all posts
Showing posts with label BBC wtc7. Show all posts

Monday, August 16, 2010

Debunking Joseph Nobles: Thermal Conductivity and Corroded Steel

Joseph Nobles' newest additions to his site--FEMA Steel and Wick The Heat Away-- attempt to address some of the issues of how the steel in the WTC was affected by heat. As we will see, Mr. Nobles' assertions are, once again, either false or misleading.

Wick The Heat Away

One of the primary faults of NIST's reports on the WTC is that they did not include the factor of thermal conductivity in their modeling. Mr. Nobles, however, has a different opinion on this.



Right. Because they say nothing about steel conducting and transferring heat throughout the building, obviously it's in the report.



Amazing that thermal conductivity would be so important, but at the same time NIST offers no detail about it in their report. They would do it for concrete, but not the steel.



Actually, someone already has put numbers to this assertion. Kevin Ryan, in his critique of the NIST report on WTC 7, wrote that:

"Structural steel has a thermal conductivity of 46 W/m/K, which means that any heat applied is easily wicked away. But if that value were set to zero, or near zero, any heat applied would allow the temperature to rise dramatically at the point of application."

Here is what NIST's report on WTC 7 had to say about their fire simulations of WTC 7.

"The major fires on floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 in WTC 7 were simulated using the Fire Dynamics Simulator (FDS), version 4, in a manner similar to the simulations conducted for WTC 1 and WTC 2 (NIST NCSTAR 1-5F)."
NIST NCSTAR 1-9, Vol. 1, page 4.

And what did NIST say about their fire simulations of the Twin Towers?

"The steel was assumed in the FDS model to be thermally-thin, thus, no thermal conductivity was used." NCSTAR 1-5F, page 20

"The interior walls [including insulated steel columns] were assumed to have the properties of gypsum board [0.5 W/m/K]." NCSTAR 1-5F, page 52

"Although the floor slab actually consisted of a metal deck topped with a concrete slab...the thermal properties of the entire floor slab were assumed to be that of concrete [1.0 W/m/K]." NCSTAR 1-5F, page 52

It is apparent that NIST went out of their way to include no thermal conductivity at all in their modeling.

Now let us turn to Mr. Nobles' section on the corroded steel from WTC 7.

The Pieces of Steel

Mr. Nobles presents what he considers to be conclusive proof that the steel was not attacked by thermate.



What Mr. Nobles seems to forget is that 1000°C is far hotter than the temperatures that NIST claims were in WTC 7. NIST states nowhere in their report that any of the steel in WTC 7 had been heated to 1000°C. Their most extreme claim is that the steel had been heated up to 675°C. And NIST has no evidence that any steel in the WTC had been heated up to 700-800°C.

As to why the steel was only heated to 1000°C, I cannot say for sure. But it's important to remember that, although thermate burns at temperatures much hotter than 1000°C, the steel would not necessarily have been heated to the exact temperature of whatever corroded it. For example, the NIST report on WTC 7 claims that the fires in the building were as hot as 2012°F, but that the steel only reached temperatures as hot as 1250°F (675°C). It is possible that the thermate that melted the piece of steel cooled somewhat as it reacted. But the main point is this: If nothing natural inside the building could have corroded the steel, then something unnatural must have been planted inside the building. This is the subject of the next part of Mr. Nobles' page.

Where Did The Sulfur Come From?

Like other defenders of the official story, Mr. Nobles offers several possible sources for the sulfur found in the WTC 7 steel, including rubbers, plastics, water, and gypsum wallboard. Wallboard has been cited most often by debunkers due to the fact that sulfur-based drywall was the third most used ingredient in the construction of the WTC complex. But as others have pointed out, calcium is also in drywall, and the sulfur and calcium are tightly bound into calcium sulfate. Because the piece of steel was found to be intergranularly melted, it means that the sulfur chemically entered into the steel. But calcium was found nowhere in the steel. Also, because it is calcium sulfate and not pure elemental sulfur, it could not have reacted in such a way that it would actually corrode the steel. Mr. Nobles closes this section with the following:



Unfortunately Mr. Nobles, these sources HAVE been ruled out.



In the last two parts of Mr. Nobles' page on the corroded steel, he acknowledges that the piece actually did come from WTC 7 (something that I in fact pointed out to him). But he claims that this piece has no real importance to NIST in their investigation. And contrary to what Mr. Nobles claims, the investigators did suggest it was "possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure."

Mr. Nobles' final statement is quite astounding.



In other words...

Friday, September 25, 2009

9/11 Debunker Gets His Ass Handed To Him By Richard Gage - 20/07/2009

Steeper33
YouTube.com
September 23, 2009

On Monday, July 20, 2009, Baltimore GrassRoots Media followed Richard Gage, AIA, founder of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, on the final day of his visit to Washington, D.C.

The final stop was the White House where Gage, with David Slesinger, laid an AE911Truth banner on the sidewalk and addressed the tourists gathered there. Gage got into a heated but cordial debate with a man who identified himself as Kevin, a "reformed truther" and the former "debunking director" on the JREF Forum.

Original YouTube post



Related Info:

Even NIST now admits that, "the damage from the debris from WTC 1 had little effect on initiating the collapse."

"Of course the diesel fuel for WTC 7's emergency generators was something that seemed to have some promise, but no. They state that, the diesel fuel "played no role in the destruction of WTC 7," and that it was "the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building," and that they were "similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings." - Source: http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/2008/08/my-demolition-company.html

Remember the BBC WTC7 hitpiece? Remember when Richard Gage attempted to explain the large amount of smoke around the south side of Building 7 by saying it was negative pressure - which he has been thoroughly mocked for? Well it's not as ridiculous as it sounds. Click here to see why...

NIST Debunks Itself

The Un-Debunkable Molten Metal

Analyzing Larry Silverstein's "Pull It" Comment

"Pulling" Building 7 - An Overlooked Explanation

"I am well aware of Mr. Silverstein's statement, but to the best of my recollection, I did not speak to him on that day and I do not recall anyone telling me that they did either. That doesn't mean he could not have spoken to someone from FDNY, it just means that I am not aware of it." - FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro (fire department commander) on 9/11

WeAreCHANGE confronts Larry Silverstein 3/13/08

WeAreChange Debunks the BBC at Ground Zero 9/11/08

WeAreChange Debunks the BBC part 2: A Call to Action

I too have been accused of being an "FDNY hating scumbag" for posting this blog, scroll down and take a look at the update.

Many great comments on this video at 911blogger.com

Of course this is all besides the point since the explosives have been found!

Monday, May 11, 2009

5 photos 9/11 thermite deniers hate.

The ScrewLooseChange blog just posted a link to this year old article called "10 photos 9/11 conspiracy nuts hate". The piece is filled with strawman arguments (when have we EVER claimed WTC6 was undamaged?) and other attacks.

One of the photos we apparently hate is actually my personal favourite photo.



Yes it proves WTC7 was hit but it also proves a huge ten tonne plus chunk of steel was hurled 107 meters laterally with several tonnes of powdered concrete trailing behind it in an upward arching motion.

So here's my response: "5 photos 9/11 thermite deniers* hate."

*My new name for debunkers!

5) The thermographic image of the South Tower taken by Carol Ciemiengo 15 minutes after it was hit by Flight 175, which shows temperatures of around a mere 90 to 100 degrees Celsius! But, only 40 minutes later, the fires were supposedly hot enough to not only melt "aluminium" but make it glow orange-yellow.


4) Piledriver? What piledriver? the debunker theory for how the buildings collapsed in only 15 seconds relies on an ever increasing piledriver mass. But look at this picture - where's the piledriver?


3) Explosive ejections of steel during the North Tower's destruction.


"Any fool can look at those films and see the buildings aren't falling down, they're blowing up!" - Paul Craig Roberts

2) Negative pressure. Remember the BBC WTC7 hitpiece? Remember when Richard Gage attempted to explain the large amount of smoke around the south side of Building 7 by saying it was negative pressure - which he has been thoroughly mocked for? Well it's not as ridiculous as it sounds. In this picture you could be forgiven for mistakenly believing that every single floor of the north tower was on fire as smoke clings onto a whole side of the building due to negative pressure.


1) MOLTEN CONCRETE! Talk about hidden in plain site. This is a photo of a "meteorite" at the New York Police Museum that shows firearms from WTC6 fused with concrete!


The label in the background reads as follows:

"Gun Encased in Concrete and Gun-Casing Remains

The U.S. Customs House stored a large arsenal of firearms at its Six World Trade Center office. During recovery efforts, several handguns were found at Ground Zero, including these two cylindrical gun-casing remains and a revolver embedded in concrete. Fire temperatures were so intense that concrete melted like lava around anything in its path."